Suicide shouldn’t be a flattering idea.
But then I think why not.
Well. I am not actually suicidal to start with. So I am not willing to close those lines and look for the most convenient way to end my life.
I have some issues of concern actually when it comes to death. I need to be finished in a way where I am really not feeling it. I think the best way is to just sleep and not wake up. So some strong sleeping pills with some poisonous pills may trigger a quiet end. It is important that I don’t feel any physical pain or see any blood. I usually don’t like things that hurt.
Well… again
I am just playing with the thought. Not willing to really do it … now. Or tomorrow.
But.
The ration behind it, I confess is scary.
I have reached to a point where I actually feel that my passion towards life has been consumed. It is off limits. It is definitely a state of desperation. But who said that desperation is not by itself a state of mind?
Maybe it is just that life really finished its whatever it is giving to people. Like me for instance.
I have suddenly come to a realization that nothing is really worth doing. Or let me put it in a better way. I came to realization where I feel that I have done all what I want to do in life. It is a total state of failure of course. But somehow, I have achieved what is desired. I have come to a stage with my kids. Actually that meaning of life and continuing to live is stretched with them. They have grown to a level where I can rest assured somehow that they can be safe enough by being independent in a way or another. That direct need to me is no more a means of life to them.
Everything else about life is just a numb feeling of nothingness.
It is all the same mess of injustice, pressure, suffering, and torture all for a means of a survival for a moment. An instant.
We work our life out for a moment of happiness. Why is that so important to live?
Why do I have to live my life in suffering and struggle for a single passing moment?
Maybe there is something of a better journey in death.
Maybe it is true that this life is nothing but an experimental place of nothingness. The real journey comes after.
After all.
Death remains as a blank existence. This gives hope in the hollowness of this dark life.
after all… who actually decided that ending one’s own life is worse than being killed by others directly or indirectly every passing moment through continuous suffering and injustice that never seize to prevail …
Nadia, I know that you say that you have no plans to commit suicide, that you are simply playing with the idea. I also understand that you have many reasons to feel the things you feel. But I do want to say two things to you:
1. I certainly cannot speak for your children; you know them best. But merely because they could live “independently” — that your necessity as a mother to guide them toward that point is the end-all and be-all of your relationship denies the very real likelihood that the independence you take for granted might be severely compromised by your loss, particularly a loss over which you had direct control, as opposed to an accident, a killing, or an illness. Isn’t your legacy to them more than just their independence? Please play with that idea as well.
2. Secondly, I know that I am a world away from you on many levels, and I am likely too much a stranger and too distant to do a thing about it should you choose to move from playing with this idea to bringing it to fruition. I hope, though, that you will think of me, another human being, who fervently appreciates your contributions to very problematic aspects of our human nature, and I really do not want such a voice to be gone, particularly by its own hand.
Okay, I lied, I have one more thing to impart:
3. I do not believe in an afterlife. In fact, I take nothing on faith unless it can be proven to me. I used to be religiously devout, and I did, at age ten, seriously consider, and actually prepared, to commit suicide. I am very, very glad that I did not go through with it. Of my own accord, and by my contributions to the lives of others, I have imbued my life with meaning, and though I still struggle with some traumas from my past, I believe I have a purpose, and that life has meaning, and that I am the creator of both. I have never met you, and likely never will, but you do mean something to me, even if in a small way. So I yearn that you give your existence, your life, your present and future, meaning as you need it to be.
u r so sweet .. and serious )))))) . i have to confess that ur number 1 is heartbreaking ) . i have been abusive about it recently with the kids talking suicide when my eldest told me : if u think this is funny it is not , and if u continue saying it I will call for help . somewhere that fear she mentioned within her words was powerful . but seriously , this whole idea of being taken for granted , by everyone including children . even if it is for a good cause is the vicious circle. i am not sure i ever took anything for granted including the consequences especially with the kids , but somehow , there is this place wher u feel ur limits are exploding , nothing left for more to take in . i am not sure if i beleive or not in the after life, i believe something is happenning there in a way or another , somehow from that faith that there should be justice at some point . if not in life in the after life. how come life is so full of suffering . its non stop. why do we have to live just to seek a moment when this same life is dominated by those who abuse all . maybe it is not for all after all.))))))))))))
Hi again, Nadia:
On the one hand, I am glad (although that is not quite the right word under the circumstances) that you talked with your kids about this, in the sense that they are “prepared” if you ever decided to stop playing with the idea and mulling over the concept and took more overt steps. On the other hand, I have the same reaction as Irene: to put such a thing in your children’s heads is cruel and frightening, and your eldest’s response is exactly the correct one.
If I recall correctly, you have had some issues with your ex-husband and his interference with your time with your kids. Could you imagine what he could do with this??!!
I do not know how old your kids are, and I suspect, given the sheer degradation, various forms of abuse, and suffering in which you find yourselves (the types some of us in more stable environments could not possibly imagine), they might understand your frustration, angst, and fury more than Irene, I, and others can. Yet, do you really want your kids to fathom that suicide is a viable option?
One could argue that since many agree that someone with a terminal illness should have the right to die, one who feels that humanity is terminally ill should have the same right, given their particular circumstances, if there seems to be no end to suffering, war, abuse, and dehumanization. On a strictly intellectual level, I can see this. On a “common good” or ideological basis, however, I find it troubling and terrifying. The idea, in fact, that there is an afterlife of reward,or something at least better, or blissful rest from suffering and nothing to deal with, could easily be the basis for someone using suicide as a weapon . . . and we all know how that can turn out. Once one posits that this life is awful and there must be, or might be, something better, the value of one’s life, to himself, herself, and perhaps others, is diminished, and it then logically follows that the lives of all others, particularly those in abusive, conflict-ridden, spiritually or physically debilitating environments lose value, and the determination that suicide is a viable option provides the fodder for murder/vigilantism becoming a viable option. Isn’t this devaluation of life exactly what you are blogging against in order to change how people are treated just because of who or where they are?
let’s start over again.. i said i was flirting with the idea not sleeping with it ))) . all the social , emotional sides are what keeps me or anyone who wants to rationalise the idea of death . when looking at all the injustices of the world around us , they way people are getting killed with no choice of theirs , all the sufferings that shouldn’t be there for the sake of what life should be standing for . why can’t someone with a full ration on his shoulder decide that he had it all from this life. it is not that i want to promote suicide neither for me nor for others. but somehow , the fact that it is prohibited for us to think about it , we are only warned against it . maybe life is all what it gives and for that person he \she can come with a kind of reconciliation with it and leave , by his own choice. maybe the whole idea of suicide is nothing but “religions” controlled notions , that do not necessary meet all the time the welfare of people . whatever i am saying again is a state of throwing thoughts that yes i dont deny are “flirting” inside my head. is it out of luxury i am doing that . no . somehow when the circles of difficulties get entangled one inside the other so closely, when the private and the public become the same , as in i look around and i only see outside the close region those refugees, killings, poverty , mere injustice and shrewdness of the world and life. inside a whole framework of corruption , injustice, upside down norms and normalities , you go to work and find exactly the same system. you go home , you find that you need to fight for the basic of what ur norms and rights should be and everything is just switched in morals, rights, norms and alls. you think… maybe it is not all those things it is just me . . and if you make a good evaluation on you , and you know well it is not you . then u simply come to the realisation when u think . maybe it is just that i dont have palace anymore inside all this ..
Oh, I just love you’re “flirting with it, not sleeping with it.” 🙂 That’s brilliant. I love it.
I do agree with you that discussing or thinking about suicide should not be forbidden, in the same way that I do not think we should forbid discussion of anything. In fact, given the tremendous cruelty that people are capable of inflicting upon others, I find it tremendously hypocritical that we harangue about the sacredness of life while making it so utterly awful, when we absolutely have the capacity to make it much, much better for all of us. I think this is definitely a worthwhile exchange. But I think people get very nervous when someone brings it up, especially when someone is living in a tough environment. We are conditioned to take such discussions as a cry for help, not as a means of beginning a dialogue. I think from the point of view of loved ones, the cost-benefit analysis of taking it as a cry for help rather than simply a philosophical/intellectual exercise must necessarily weigh heavily on the side of visceral concern rather than rational, unemotional, distanced analysis. One can easily see oneself looking back and saying: “She said it was just pondering, but now she’s gone.” That fear renders it almost impossible to simply indulge in a conversation about such a charged subject without a lot of worry.
Dear Nadia. If you feel yourself taken for granted, it is because you have allowed people to take you for granted.
Don’t ever talk to your kids about you will commit suicide. It is the worst ever as you can tell your kids. Every time they are away from you, they will think, is my mommy alive, when I come back home again. This will kill them mentally. Sorry to be so tough, but I do really mean it.
I feel sure, that you don’t wish to be mean to your kids, but then never say so, never.
When were the last time, as you dreamed about your life? Which dreams would you love to come true? What can you do to let them come true? Do you have a passion? These things are very important to show your kids, so they also learn, that you do something for yourself. This give them a kind of respect for you.
Try to do something for yourself every day, even just for 5 minutes. Something you like and enjoy to do. This will help you to go on in a better way for both yourself and your kids.
I do know about suffering too, I have been there and still fight some days.
Best wishes
Irene
u know sometimes being harsh is good , even on kids. i cannot deny , i actually feel blessed each passing breath of how lucky i am with my kids. they are areal blessing of life . being taken by granted seems like a spell. we allow it often to those whom we love dearly , and somewhere things get lost to a no control zone. it could be that weakness from my side that made me abusive to my children in that sense. but after all .. it is them that i am consumed in many ways for . sometime i admit that i allow it . sometimes i want them to know that i may not be able to make it all the way. sometimes i really cannot .. but yet they insist i can . this is a situation when it is not a compliment . and yes it kills to know that my daughters worry about my well being when i am down . and they have been so much there for me , maybe more than what they can take.. but still . somewhere.. sometimes i am in a situation where it becomes all too much . God.. this is a counseling session )))
I don’t know you well enough to say so much Nadia, but it sounds for me, like you have a Clinical Depression. Maybe you should ask your doctor for help with that. I can promise you, that this will also make your kids more happy, that they know you take care of yourself. Don’t think they wish to loose you. But don’t scare them. It will only give them mental scars for life.
We are many, who have had or still have a Depression. It it possible to come out and find the light again. I did. Good luck.
i think i had a clinical depression , maybe i am still under one … to get out of this gloomy atmosphere i will tell u how i got out of my last one. i was waking up one day looking at myself in the reflection of my bed thinking another miserable day when my face kind of reflected nicely on me and i thought ; ok nadia , u cannot go on like this , get up and start putting urself together life is good. i got me up , i felt fresh , i smiled to my two dogs , opened the door to have my eye squaring on the corner with a mouse . i started screaming so load . well this was the kind f screamed i had real few times that are limited to giving birth . the mouse was jumping with the vibrations of my voice. the two poor dogs who proved to be totally useless unable to save me in front of that little monster were in a shock probably thinking what the hell happened to this crazy woman . well i spent the day screaming and out of fear i left the door open . the mouse was practically not inside the house when i saw him in that corner . so me opening the door and jumping back to my bedroom made me totally exposed to it . of course i kept screaming towards any creature that passed through me on that day and was less that 150 cm in height . anyway … after that long stream of exhausting screams .. i realise a few days after that i was eating again and i was actually fine …))
I have had two bouts of depression, and I live with PTSD. I am no longer on medication for this, but it is oftentimes a major struggle not to go back to it. Life was so much easier. But in other ways I feel much better not taking it. I work with at-risk youth, who are dealing with every conceivable challenge you can think of. My own issues, along with my exceptionally high empathy, make my job exceedingly painful. However, I tell myself that nothing I am going through compares to what they are going through, and the last thing they need is to be abandoned, or for me to burn out and no longer care, to desensitize myself. This is not easy, and I am sure a lot of what I choose to go through is not good for my emotional well-being. But until human beings stop finding ways to divide ourselves, there must be people willing to push through and help those who are worse off. My life is an emotional roller-coaster, and it is frankly exhausting. But I also have loved ones, wonderful moments, a sense of fun and humor, and the knowledge that as many corrupt, hypocritical, ideological, hate-bolstering, dividing people there are out there, there are plenty of us who live humanity’s better aspects, and we just have to keep plugging away to tip the balance precariously in our favor. Hopefully sooner than later.
Just to give you a better sense of who I am, I am blind since birth, a mother of two, an attorney, and teacher. I was mercilessly bullied as a child, which led to my PTSD, and I still have flashbacks, nightmares, hyper vigilance, etc. I am viciously against any person or group or government which bullies, demonizes, or trounces the rights and lives of others. Given the world we live in, and my inability to do much about most of its many injustices, this makes for a very cynical outlook. But I know that there are others like me, and if we could somehow combine our voices and power, we might make a bigger dent. Maybe.
there r moments when people enter to tell u that ur too small in life’s big mess and that your test is that of a beginner in comparison to others … thank u for ur words…
Nadia, you had an interesting and worthwhile discussion with Autumn Sky. However, I don’t think you’re clinically depressed. You are a sensitive, intelligent, compassionate woman trying to maintain a semblance of a sane life in one of the most insane places on this planet. I have thought exactly as you wrote in the post – and I know that the whole discussion of suicide is not clear cut. For better or worse, I am a Buddhist now and my teacher told me that if I kill myself I’m killing all of the buddhas and bodhisattvas. Because we really are one. But, if I were to die to save another as Sakyamuni Buddha did lifetime after lifetime, it’s not suicide. Yet, sometimes this life doesn’t make sense. But what sustains me is a knowing at the deepest part of me that good does rise and an eternal justice does exist. And as heartbreaking every inexcusable death there are new births and continuing acts of courage. And you posting your flirtation with suicidal thoughts was an act of courage. But, having once tried to commit suicide by taking pills, you have to know you’re taking pills that will kill you. And often when I think of it I remember the story I read in high school, about a person who tried to kill herself but ended in a wheel chair. Death is always seen as the worse thing, but you and I know there are things worse than death. And it really isn’t awfully cruel to make your children aware that yes, you will die, someday, someway – as we all will. My husband hates for me to joke about dying before him, but I’m 10 years older than him. O.K. enough. Just know, I fully understand your original post and found the above conversation thought provoking.
I, too, do not believe you are depressed, Nadia. I do feel compelled to point out, though, Skywalker, that something you said here could be very offensive to those who use wheelchairs. There is an implication that being in a wheelchair is a fate worse than death. The people I have known in wheelchairs would vociferously disagree. And the world is definitely better off with the extra knowledge of those such as Stephen Hawking, who has thus far outlived his doctor’s dire predictions by decades.
Autumn, did not mean any offense to people in wheel chairs. But in the story, the woman wanted to be with the man she love or to die, but he died and she was left alone to suffer.
Dear Women, I think we r in “women power” circle ))) . .Skywalker u have been and remain a fresh and empowering soul to what I write here . U take me from that “soul” side wholly )) .
I dont think any offense happened or was intended mentioning ending on a wheel chair, the idea i assume is , that while trying to end one’s life for certain difficulties and sufferings , one ends with difficulties and sufferings he\she never experienced or knew about before .
I was quite secure that no offense was meant, but those of us with disabilities, particularly physical and easily visible ones are very used to hearing/reading comments that, explicitly or implicitly, state that our fates, merely because of the disability in question, are necessarily awful; in fact, there are people and whole cultures who believe, for example, that it is better to be dead than blind. In most polls, blindness is feared more than cancer, brain injury, etc., which I think is patently absurd. In fact, if someone asked me “Would you rather be blind and get rid of your PTSD and anxieties, or be sighted with them?” I’ll take the blindness, hands down, no question. By the same token, if there was a surgery which might give me full sight but there was a significant possibility of brain damage or personality change, I wouldn’t go near it. Most sighted people do not understand this.
do u think this has to do with being born with it ( in this case not seeing) . it maybe that such values as seeing , walking , hearing.. are appreciated whennwe lose. so imaginign myself blind maybe worse than death, since i know life as someone who cannot cope except through that visual seeing and so on … but i have to bow with respect ,and admit, that people like you , make me feel humbled and silly often .. when we practically have it all and complain ,while others have what maybe worse than death in our own conception and find virtue where we miss it .. thank u for this enlightening discussions ladies )
I have known dozens of disabled people, and been acquainted with literally thousands of blind people. I think it is generally easier when one is born with a particular disability, but life has shown me, as a person with a disability who has known those with disabilities and fought for them: schools, employers, their communities, their *families*, that it is the attitude of the person and the surrounding environment: are their expectations that the person, whether born with a disability or acquired through injury, accident, or illness, will become as independent and contributing a member of society as possible? Families, educators, and the professionals working with those who are disabled are the first line of defense. I know people who were born disabled who are self-pitying, angry people who expect nothing of life because they are taught that they should not, and that it was not possible to expect success from a life so afflicted. I have known people who, in their fifties and sixties became disabled, gradually or suddenly, who had no intention of letting the rest of their lives pass them by. It involves a very complicated cauldron of bubbling variables, but the inner resilience, or lack thereof, and the expectations held, by the person and others with whom he or she most associates, are the greatest determinants. It is also easy to internalize society’s silly and ignorant reactions to disability. I have literally been told I am a danger to myself or ungrateful if I take the steps or go into a “regular” bathroom stall rather than using the elevator or using a stall equipped for people with wheelchairs. (My legs work fine, stairs are no problem, and ‘handicapped stall’ is not a mandatory obligation for anyone who is visibly disabled.) Fellow humans can be well-intentioned, but too often irrational and aggravating, and when one faces this on a daily basis when one is out and about, it can become easier for some to say, “I do not want to deal with this. I will never be treated/seen as an equal, whole person.”
Autumn Sky, one of the professors I admired most was a blind woman. She wasn’t born blind but became blind through a sickness. She amazed and inspired me. As does anyone who moves forward in their life whatever their limiting circumstances may be physical, mental, emotional, or racial. Most people have something to overcome and almost every situation in life is criticized by someone else. What matters is that we all know we are at heart one and we are of infinite value in manifesting a state of enlightening consciousness on this earth.